[FLPERMACULTURE] Fwd: New York Trying to Make ALL Vaccines Mandatory!

Tue Jun 3 05:59:54 PDT 2008

dear bethany and all...

thank u so much for taking the time to explain to me how u feel and why concerning mandatory legislated vaccinations...

one of my sisters is a microbiologist...she works in a hospital lab now but just a few years ago, she worked for over a year for phizer in their vaccine division...

the things she learned there combined w the knowledge and experience she already had have caused her to choose not to be immunized as a health care worker...

her dau also experienced an extreme, autistic-like reaction to one of her first immunizations as an infant...

we come from a family where its normal to q the requirements imposed on us by the medical establishment...in this case its not just the medical establishments' reasoning that i question but the intentions of the corporations involved...

i will take in what u have said, bethany...thank u again...

Bethany Schroeder <nidus at pinax.com> wrote: Denise,

You've asked a really good question about personal choice and how
decisions regarding immunizations can affect others.

Many immunizations work because most people in a given region agree to
take them. Vaccines, however, don't confer 100% protection on a 
population, but if almost everyone agrees to be immunized, the
statistical likelihood of getting the disease against which the
immunization is made goes waaaaaay down. When we're talking about
infectious diseases, achieving such a statistical reduction has
generally been considered worthwhile.

For the sake of this discussion, it's worth remembering that vaccines 
are generally not applicable to all members of a population; children 
are vaccinated because they are young, and, as such, have less well 
developed immune systems, and they spend much of their time in 
congregate situations.

So, let's say you and your extended family and friends don't trust the
polio vaccine, and none of you get immunized. Unless you can thoroughly
avoid contact with everyone outside your close-knit connections, it is
quite possible that if the disease appears in your region and one or 
more of you becomes infected, you will bring the disease into the larger 
community. Even if all of the other community members have been 
vaccinated, immunization rates will have been less than 100% successful, 
leaving some community members vulnerable to the disease. so your 
decision to refuse vaccination can indeed have a very real impact on 
others, even others who did not share in your decision.

Does a healthy life style help in preventing disease? Yes. But don't 
forget that the flu pandemic of the early 1900s was particularly deadly 
to strong, young men. Living a clean and healthy life is a good idea for 
the benefits it brings to oneself and for the example it conveys to 
others, but to count on it to avoid becoming ill with a highly 
infectious disease is unwise, in my opinion.

I think all of this amounts to a moral choice--not an easy one, 
especially to people who mistrust the medical, pharmaceutical, and 
governmental systems at hand. And some alarming concerns about how 
immunizations are produced have been raised in the past several years, 
concerns that I think bear careful analysis. Nonetheless, in the end, we 
have to make decisions about whether or not the safety of ourselves and 
our loved ones should take priority over the safety of others. I 
personally believe the tribe's needs outweigh mine; apparently others 
hold a different point of view.

In my opinion, people with deep concerns about pharmaceutical production
should lobby for different lab and manufacturing practices, but until
changes are made, such people should either remove themselves to an
island of permanent quarantine or get their kids immunized against the
basic illness for which we have effective vaccines. I think this is the
right thing to do EVEN IF MY KID SUFFERS.

What we do as individuals makes a difference to others around us, 
whether we're talking about immunizations or a whole host of other 
matters. Should we allow our leaders to legislate these decisions? It's 
not the choice I'd want to make.

Bethany

denise mooney wrote:
> hey u all...
> 
> i wish u wouldnt equate the earth being flat, the easter bunny and the 
> tooth fairy w the suspicion that mandatory vaccinations r not 100% 
> beneficial...
> 
> it makes those of us who r suspicious about it sound superstitious and 
> irrational...and i dont think that is the case here...
> 
> if the way to prevent certain illnesses is to make it mandatory for 
> everyone to get a vaccination, then frankly, that does not sound like 
> the best solution, on a number of levels...
> 
> maybe i dont understand how this all works...could someone explain to me 
> how personally choosing to get a vaccine is going to protect other 
> people, who have also voluntarily chosen to get the vaccine too?...
> 
> in other words, how am i endangering anyone else but myself (and those 
> around me who have also chosen not to vaccinate) by not getting the 
> vaccine for say, flu?...
> 
> i have always been a believer in live and let live (or live and let 
> die)...please explain why it is necessary for the government to force me 
> to get a vaccine i dont want?...
> 
> and please excuse my ignorance, if that is how i appear...i do not 
> believe in the tooth fairy or the easter bunny (but i know there is a 
> santa claus, the permaculture elves told me so)...
> 
> ignorantly(?),
> denise...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> */Thomas Shelley /* wrote:
> 
>     Dear Friends--I couldn't agree with Jon's post more.  If a person
>     believes that yoga and exercise and eating fairly well are going to
>     prevent them from succumbing to a pandemic outbreak of a disease
>     from which the average person could be protected by a vaccine then
>     he or she probably believes in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny
>     as well.  It is unfortunate that there have been instances of
>     preservatives in vaccines causing adverse reactions in some
>     individuals.  However, as we go into the future, especially with
>     accelerated climate change, population grow, migrations of displaced
>     populations, and other factors, there will be increasingly frequent
>     instances of outbreaks of diseases that could be averted with mass
>     vaccination.  I would hope that most of us would see the sanity of
>     vaccination and chose to have themselves and their loved ones
>     vaccinated to prevent such outbreaks from affecting us to the extent
>     possible here in the U.S.  My $.02.  Tom
> 
> 
>     At 05:05 PM 5/31/2008 -0400, Jon Bosak wrote, in part:
>>     If you want to turn back to a nineteenth-century view of the
>>     universe, that's your business.  But turning back to a
>>     nineteenth-century level of infectious disease is everyone's
>>     business.
>>
>>     I abhor the intrusion of government into our personal lives as
>>     much as anyone, but I have to say that running into someone who
>>     genuinely believes that diseases like diphtheria and tetanus can
>>     be controlled by "diet and lifestyle" makes me oddly grateful that
>>     it's there.
>     Tom Shelley
>     118 E. Court St.
>     Ithaca, NY 14850
>     607 342-0864
>     tjs1 at cornell.edu
>     http://www.myspace.com/99319958
>     *P* I thank you for printing this e-mail only if it is necessary
> 
>     "Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the
>     present without compromising the ability of future generations to
>     meet their own needs."
> 
>     The World Commission on Environment and Development,
>     Gro Harlem Brundtland
>     /Our Common Future,/ Oxford University Press, 1987
> 
>     MY NOTE:  Sustainable development does /not /mean "sustainable
>     growth" as growth /per se /is not sustainable.  And the term
>     "sustainable" has to mean "for a very long time" (A. Bartlett).
> 
>     "The frog does not drink up the pond in which he lives."       
>     Sioux proverb _______________________________________________
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