[Mintwood-place] Firetruck Surface for Kalorama Playing Field!

Tue Jul 14 12:36:00 EDT 2009

We have a community meeting today at 7:00 pm at Kalorama Park to do a presentation about the erosion project. We will address this concern and present the available options (soil, net and geoblock). 
Other questions will be also answered at the time.  
Thanks,
Ximena Hartsock
Acting Director/DPR

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas, Harry (COUNCIL) <HThomas at DCCOUNCIL.US>
To: 'Eddie Becker' <eddie_becker at yahoo.com>; Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC); Jim at grahamwone.com <Jim at grahamwone.com>
Cc: Belinne, Adrian (DPR); Mintwood List <mintwood-place at lists.mutualaid.org>; Rodgers, Neil (COUNCIL)
Sent: Tue Jul 14 12:32:32 2009
Subject: RE: Firetruck Surface for Kalorama Playing Field!

Mr. Rodgers on my staff in the cc will follow up.

________________________________

From: Eddie Becker [mailto:eddie_becker at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:35 AM
To: Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS); Jim at grahamwone.com
Cc: Belinne, Adrian (DPR); Thomas, Harry (COUNCIL); Mintwood List
Subject: Re: Firetruck Surface for Kalorama Playing Field!

Dear Jim, Please have DPR provide that information to us right now so it can be verified.  Their subsission should include varifiable contact information.  Also they should respond in writing with their ansers to the Still Unanswered Question.   The last time DPR, provided examples of where Geoblock was used as a childrens playing field not only was it not a similar application, (wheel chair road) but the Geoblock was never used.   

STILL UNANSWERED QUESTIONS 

1) What was the reason for selecting Geoblock over grass turf as the new surface for a playing field intended primarily for children?

 2) Where is the drainage for the new playing field? Where will the water go? 

3) When was the last time the basketball court was resurfaced at Kalorama Park?

From: Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC) Subject: Fw: Kaloram Inquiries To: eddie_becker at yahoo.com, chrisotten2 at yahoo.com, weaveranc at aol.com Cc: Belinne at hotmail.com Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:12 AM

 Sorry it took so long for you to get these answers (below). ..... Thanks again. X

From: Frear, Sherry (DPR) To: Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC); Stesney, Bridget (DPR); Stesney, Bridget (DPR); Janifer, David (DPR) Sent: Thu Jul 02 17:54:35 2009 

Subject: Kaloram Inquiries 

I’m sending this to you, Ximena, as I take it you want to include this information in an email to Becker/Weaver? 

** Example of place where Geoblock is used in the same manner. Herrity Government Building, Fairfax County, Virginia 

 --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Eddie Becker Cc: Belinne at hotmail.com Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 11:47 AM 

Dear Director Hartsock, I'm told that Geoblock was rejected for the Herrity Building Project. Please come up with another example where Geoblock was used in any similar way as the one proposed in Kalorama Park as a playing field for children, which would include sports and games such as volleyball, toddler soccer practice, running games, etc. Herrity Government Building, Fairfax County, Virginia Geoblock had been specified for Wheel Chair access on the Green Roof of the Harrity Parking Garage http://www.greenroofs.com/projects/pview.php?id=776 , by Capitol Greenroofs. http://www.capitolgreenroofs.com but according to Gregory Long the Landscape Architect who worked the project. Geoblock was rejected by the City because of cost. Capitol Greenroofs 5806 9th Road North Arlington, VA 22205 Tel: 301.452.1144 --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC) wrote: 

________________________________

From: "Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC)" <Ximena.Hartsock at dc.gov>
To: Jim at grahamwone.com; eddie_becker at yahoo.com
Cc: "Belinne, Adrian (DPR)" <adrian.belinne at dc.gov>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:56:17 AM
Subject: Re: Firetruck Surface for Kalorama Playing Field!

Mr. Becker,

We are planning to answer all of the questions at the meeting on the 14th of July.  Meeting will begin at 7:00 pm, at the Kalorama Recreation Center. The agenda includes the discussion around Geoblocks. We will be bringing examples of Geoblocks as well as where they have been used.

Adrian Belline, COO, will be sending agenda later today.

Thanks for your support of DPR.

Sincerely,

Ximena Hartsock/DPR

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Graham <Jim at grahamwone.com>
To: Eddie Becker <eddie_becker at yahoo.com>; Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC)
Sent: Mon Jul 13 10:34:14 2009
Subject: RE: Firetruck Surface for Kalorama Playing Field!

Thanks. I am asking for the response of the DPR Dir. Bests

I typically answer emails before 9 AM on weekdays. If you email me after that, it is likely that you will hear from me the next weekday. If there is a need to communicate prior to that, you may wish to call me. For most effective communication, please use my direct email address: jim at grahamwone.com

Jim Graham, Councilmember, Ward One, 1350 Pa. Ave., NW, #105, Washington, DC 20004. 202-724-8181; 202-724-8109 (fax).

Chairman, Committee on Public Works and the Transportation (including alcohol regulation). Main Committee Number: 202-724-8195. 1350 Pa. Ave., NW, #116, Washington, DC 20004.

Chairman and Voting Member, Board of Directors, WMATA/Metro.

Website: www.grahamwone.com <http://www.grahamwone.com>

From: Eddie Becker [mailto:eddie_becker at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:58 AM
To: Jim Graham
Subject: Fw: Firetruck Surface for Kalorama Playing Field!
 Kalorama Park Meeting, July 14 at 7pm Kalorama Park Recreation Center - off Columbia Road between Kalorama Road and Mintwood Place. ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dear Councilperson Graham,  I would be helpful you requested DPR to make there case, and provide docucmented and varafiable examples were Geoblock has been used succesfuly in a playing field. 
 STILL UNANSWERED QUESTIONS 1) What was the reason for selecting Geoblock over grass turf as the new surface for a playing field intended primarily for children? 2) Where is the drainage for the new playing field? Where will the water go? 3) When was the last time the basketball court was resurfaced at Kalorama Park?

Thanks for taking a look at this.  DPR  has only to produce some successful place anywhere where Geoblock Porous Pavers are in use as a children's playing field (on the surface or with 2"-3" of covering).  Failing this they should have a plan to mediate the problem once the upper layer fails and the Geoblock layer becomes the surface.  (Remediation removing geoblock and supporting gravel).

I think DPR is experimenting with this, because, they did not include field drainage, when waterlogged, the grass will be crushed in when in use.  So they think Geoblock porous pavers sitting on 4" of gravel with a layer of sod and grass on top, will drain easier.  It might but the upper layer of sod and grass will likely fail exposing the hard and dangerous surface.
 E-mails with Adrian Belinne and others, plus misleading if not false examples or where Geoblock has been used in similar situations.
 Thanks, Eddie Becker

At this Tuesdays Kalorama Park Meeting we might get to hear why the planners at Department of Parks and Recreation (DPR) decided to spend allot of money on a dangerous playing field surface rather then properly design the field with good drainage, properly prepared soil and robust grass. DPR plans to use Geoblock 5150, porous pavement surface used for roads like a “large fire truck responding to an alarm, and passing over a rain-soaked porous pavement system to reach an area of a building containing people.” (Function of the Geoblock Unit, DESIGN & CONSTRUCTION OVERVIEW, page 1, http://www.reynoldspkg.com/alcoa-geo/catalog/applications/Geoblock/geoblock5150_design_and_construction_ov.pdf One would have thought that maybe they would check this stuff out, researched how well it would work in a playing field, found other examples or ran experiments Therefore, I asked them to come up with any Geoblock use example in a recreational field, for activities like toddler soccer, volleyball, yoga, running games, etc. They presented one example, which they claimed to be similar - turned out to be a wheelchair access ramp on a green roof atop a parking garage – where the county, decided in the end not to use Geoblock – because of the cost. (For details of this e-mail exchange below). Therefore, I called the manufacture, who said that hard rigid plastic walls, though not sharp, would be a lot like falling on stones, she would not recommend Geoblock as an active playing field surface. (See details below). Geoblock is constructed like stiff plastic ice cube trays, but much bigger, with a wide opening at the bottom to allow fast drainage; and open on top to allow grass to grow out of the cell. The delicate roots of the grass root protected from compaction by the stiff cell walls. Geoblock porous pavers work well for parking lots, fire roads and for wheel chair access – grass grows out of the cells – though it looks a bit clumpy. When I raised these concerns, DPR modified their plans; they substituted a more robust Geoblock product with larger size cells, more than 3 inches square, creating an even greater tripping hazard then the previous Geoblock product. DPR then specified that an additional 2 – 3 inches of soil and grass grow on top of Geoblock. This, according to the product manufacturer literature, defeats the entire design concept. “Final topsoil placement should be at or slightly below the level of the Geoblock cell wall.” “…excessive topsoil will compact and not allow for healthy vegetation,” DESIGN & CONSTRUCTION OVERVIEW, page 1, http://www.reynoldspkg.com/alcoa-geo/catalog/applications/Geoblock/geoblock5150_design_and_construction_ov.pdf The weight is supposed to rest on the cell walls. The added layers will eventually compress into the cells, and/or push the soil in the open cell out the bottoms. Another possibility is the upper grass never really takes anchors itself to the Geoblock and will slide around after some use and tare off.

Eddie Becker ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Eddie Becker> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 3:36:16 PM Subject: 

RE: Kaloram Inquiries 

Dear Adrian Delinne Chief of Operations at DPR and Director Hartsock,Director of DPR Thanks for you note. We can meet whenever and wherever convenient for all concerned. I am already assuaged. – You tell me! Look, I want to deal with verifiable facts, if I question a product, or a decision, do not take it as a personal attack. Nor will I question people’s motives; the DPR staff working this project have been making decisions with the best of intentions, within institutional and budgetary limitations. I am sympathetic to the challenges of DPR; just about every single athletic field project I am familiar with has failed. The Walter Pierce field destroyed within weeks of its completion, the Mitchell Park Field, washed down the hill, and the Soccer field, adjacent to DPR headquarters, which had been the heart of the Hispanic Community replaced with tennis courts. Therefore, I understand wanting to be innovative and I want to help you get it right Which is why I asked, "What was the reason for selecting Geoblock, over grass turf as the new surface, for a playing field intended primarily for children?" In reply you state, that I got the wrong Geoblock product. "Geoblock "Paving Stone" product that you mention below is not the product that has been selected for use." (Adrian Belinne) I never mentioned, ““Geoblock “Paving Stones”” but always Geoblock 2 (as specified in DPR’s drawings. See attachment) sometimes referred to as Geoblock Porous Pavers or just Geoblock. Geoblock does not make any product called Geoblock “Paving Stones” http://www.reynoldspkg.com/alcoa-geo/en/solutions/Geoblock/porous_pavement.asp who told you they did? However, someone did mention “Stones” in the e-mail to which you refer the Geoblock manufacturer said that falling on Geoblock would be like “falling on stones.” Which leads me to my next question – If I had gotten it wrong why not just tell us now what the right product is? I think you owe us an explanation. On June 22, I sent an e-mail to DPR, community organizations and individuals detailing concerns with the safety, aesthetics and grass growing abilities of the Geoblock 2. (See attachment) Since then I have come up with even more evidence about it being a bad choice. Even with the addition 2"- 3" of topsoil and grass laid on top of the Geoblock. In that case, according to the manufacture of Geoblock, you have the same compaction problem as you would have on a normal poorly prepared field. Geoblock works by holding compaction weight on top of its rigid side walls while the inner cup protect loosely packed soil holding the roots of the grass. Putting an additional two to three inches of sod and grass on top of the Geoblock, defeats that. When the field is in use, the weight will push the upper layer into the root ball cup compacting the roots and killing the grass. However, if DPR planners know where or how this would work please let us know. What I do know is that I have spoken to a lot of athletic field planers and operators who think they have better solutions and found better products. However, no one from DPR has yet to state what problem Geoblock solves, I only know what won't work. Eddie Becker

\

 ======================================== 

--- On Wed, 7/8/09, Adrian Belinne wrote: From: Adrian Belinne Subject: RE: Kaloram Inquiries To: Eddie Becker Cc: chrisotten2 at yahoo.com, weaveranc at aol.com, "ximena hartsock" , bridget.stesney at dc.gov Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 6:36 AM 

Dear Mr Baker, You and I met at the recent ANC meeting. I am Dr Hartsock's Chief Operating Officer and I am very interested in assuaging your concerns about the methods being proposed to address the Kalorama Park renovations. I have been working closely with the team that is responsible for making the decisions on that project and I am convinced that the approach that has been proposed is a sound one and that all of your concerns about the project will be resolved. I would like to set aside some time for you and me to get together in person, preferably at the park itself, to review the analysis and the engineering proposal. The short answer to the points that you make below is that the GeoBlock "Paving Stone" product that you mention below is not the product that has been selected for use. The product that is proposed for use is not a paving block, but rather a "matrix"-like layer that will be buried aproximately 2-3" below the topsoil and will never be exposed to the surface. Rather than trying to explain all of it to you through email, though, I would like to take the time to meet with you in person and show you the analysis and plans including the points about the drainage for the field. I must appologize for the frustration that you have experienced through this process and ask you to trust us one more time until you and I can meet. Then, if you have additional concerns, I will take personal responsibility for answering your questions. I will be in touch with you soon to schedule a time for you and me to meet in person. Adrian Belinne COO, DPR

 --------------------------------------------- 

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 05:02:28 -0700 From: Eddie Becker Subject: Re: Fw: Kaloram Inquiries To: chrisotten2 at yahoo.com; weaveranc at aol.com; Ximena.Hartsock at dc.gov CC: Belinne at hotmail.com 

Dear Director Hartsock, The reason your staff is unable to find any successful uses of Geoblock for a playing field, is that it is dangerous. Geoblock is not recommended for playing fields, according to Jennifer Vanderlinden from Geoblock, (800-548-3424 or 920-738-1328), because of the fear of impact injury, Geoblock walls are rigid to support the weight of cars and trucks. and the top edges are hard, “it would be like falling on stones.” Geoblock Porous Pavers http://www.reynoldspkg.com/alcoa-geo/en/solutions/Geoblock/porous_pavement.asp The Northern Virginia Distributor of Geoblock, Jeff Fox 804-363-8744 agrees, there are other products better suited for playing fields. In addition, Geoblock will slide and shift under active use, shearing the roots of the grass that extend below Geoblock to the surface below, according to Gregory Long, from Capitol Greenroofs 301.452.1144 a Landscape Architect who has used Geoblock for wheelchair access on green roofs. “There are better solutions." STILL UNANSWERED QUESTIONS 1) What was the reason for selecting Geoblock over grass turf as the new surface for a playing field intended primarily for children? 2) Where is the drainage for the new playing field? Where will the water go? 3) When was the last time the basketball court was resurfaced at Kalorama Park?

 --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Eddie Becker Cc: Belinne at hotmail.com Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 11:47 AM 

Dear Director Hartsock, I'm told that Geoblock was rejected for the Herrity Building Project. Please come up with another example where Geoblock was used in any similar way as the one proposed in Kalorama Park as a playing field for children, which would include sports and games such as volleyball, toddler soccer practice, running games, etc. Herrity Government Building, Fairfax County, Virginia Geoblock had been specified for Wheel Chair access on the Green Roof of the Harrity Parking Garage http://www.greenroofs.com/projects/pview.php?id=776 , by Capitol Greenroofs. http://www.capitolgreenroofs.com but according to Gregory Long the Landscape Architect who worked the project. Geoblock was rejected by the City because of cost. Capitol Greenroofs 5806 9th Road North Arlington, VA 22205 Tel: 301.452.1144 --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC) wrote: 

From: Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC) Subject: Fw: Kaloram Inquiries To: eddie_becker at yahoo.com, chrisotten2 at yahoo.com, weaveranc at aol.com Cc: Belinne at hotmail.com Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:12 AM

 Sorry it took so long for you to get these answers (below). Also, can we discuss the upcoming meeting? We can do this coming Wednesday or the 14th. Geoblocks will not be installed for a while so we have time to discuss. Let me know. 14th is better as Sarah Moulton is back then. Thanks again. X

 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frear, Sherry (DPR) To: Hartsock, Ximena (DCPS-OOC); Stesney, Bridget (DPR); Stesney, Bridget (DPR); Janifer, David (DPR) Sent: Thu Jul 02 17:54:35 2009 

Subject: Kaloram Inquiries I’m sending this to you, Ximena, as I take it you want to include this information in an email to Becker/Weaver? ** Example of place where Geoblock is used in the same manner. Herrity Government Building, Fairfax County, Virginia 

NOTE similar application: Supports loose aggregate pathways at US Botanic Garden so they can be both “natural” and ADA accessible; approved by the Architect of the Capitol. 

**Test soil results indicating type of soil Per “Soil Erosion Assessment of District of Columbia Parks and Recreation,” prepared by NRCS/DOH, 10/02/2003: Soil classification is “SASSAFRAS-URBAN LAND COMPLEX, 8 to 15 PERCENT SLOPE” Per the USDA/NRCS: SASSAFRAS SERIES MLRA(S): 133A, 148, 149A, 153A, 153B, 153C, 153D MLRA OFFICE RESPONSIBLE: Morgantown, West Virginia DEPTH CLASS: Very deep DRAINAGE CLASS: Well drained PERMEABILITY: Moderate or moderately slow SURFACE RUNOFF: Slow or medium PARENT MATERIAL: Sandy marine and old alluvial sediments SLOPE: 0 to 60 percent **Who is supervising project now that Sarah is gone? Sherry A. Frear, ASLA Department of Parks & Recreation, Office of Planning & Capital Projects 1480 Girard Street, NW, Washington, DC 20010 202-615-7383 sherry.frear at dc.gov

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