[SustainableTompkins] Question re roads, was Hybrid parade

Sun Apr 6 12:43:42 PDT 2008

Tom,  

  I definitely agree with what Simon wrote in the TCLocal piece.

  I grew up learing to drive on dirt roads and just got back from a week in New Orleans and the Guld Coast of Mississippi, where most of the residential streets are 18-22 feet wide curb to curb (when they have curbs).  In fact if you get off the interstates and other main highways throughout the south and the west you will find that there road network is much less "developed" than the state and local systems of New York. 

  In fact if you simply leave Tompkins County you can find that local roads are not as wide, straight of smooth as those in much of Tompkins County.

  People out there seem get along fine with what they have, and seem to pay a lot less taxes as well.

  Amongst the 90 percent or so of my ideas that have been rejected was a return to the use of parkways to move auto traffic around Ithaca at 30-40 MPH.  they would essential be 22-24 ft. wide roadways carrying two-way traffic, located  within 100-160 rights-of-ways that would provide noise and visual buffers between traffic and adjacent reidential areas, and create room for bikeways tahtw ould not be immediately adjecent to high speed traffic.

  Nodal development certainly is agreat idea, although the article leaves the definition of  "nodal development" to the imagination.  But then again so does a lot of the planning literature I read.

  I'm also only batting .400 in my efforts to get local municipalities to adopt zoning regulations that permit higher residential densities and mixed-use development as a means of channeling growth to better protect open space and make more efficient use of existing infrastructure, including streets and roads.

  As for myself I have a pretty definitive definition of nodal development:  compact communities with populations densities in the range of 20,000 persons per square mile or about 12 residential units per acrea.  By comparison the overall population density of Ithaca NY (city only) is about 5,500 persons per square mile and the residential unit density of Fall Creek only 7-7.5 dwellings per acre.  Of course the numbers are much lower and even more disastrous from the standpoint of sustainbility outside the city itself. 

  Already had one of my planning class take a look at the positive impact of sustainable urban planning for Ithaca.  Simply replacing the predominant single-family detached residential development pattern with one dominated by the simple two-three-story residential townhouse architecture resulted in the 11-plus square miles of the Ithaca urban area (City of Ithaca, Town of Ithaca, Village of Cayuga Heights, Village of Lansing) being condensed into an area of between 2.5 and 3 square miles  bounded on the north by Cayuga Lake, Stewart Park and Fall Creek Gorge, on the east by Judd Falls Road and  Collegetown, on the south by Six Mile Creek, and on the west by the Flood Control Channel and Cass Park.

  It included everything you see in Ithaca and its surrounding suburbs, including Cornell, Ithaca College and the 7 million-plus square feet of big-box. malls andother reatil development that exists.

  Not only did 7 to 8 square miles of sprawl become agricultural lands or forest land, and not only did residents suddenly live within a 10-20 minute walk to ANYWHERE, including shopping, work, schools and the urban/rural edge, but the exercise also wiped out the need for between 200 and 250 miles worth of streets and roads.

  Imagine how many miles of roads in Tompkins County beyond the Ithaca urban area could disappear if people would start placing the environment before lifestyle choices and move back to the ciities and villages.

  Best regards.

  George

Thomas Shelley <tjs1 at cornell.edu> wrote:
  Dear George and Friends--For a different option on the future of roads see 
Simon St.Laurent's article on roads on the TC Local site at 
http://www.tclocal.org/. Your comments on Simon's article are welcome as 
well. Take care. Tom

At 06:10 AM 3/24/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>Depending on type of surface and level of maintenance rural roads in New 
>York and Pennsylvania can cost anywhere from around $15,000 per mile to 
>$30,000 per mile annually to maintain.
>
> George Frantz
>
>Joshua Dolan wrote:
> in all these conversations about hybrids I have rarely
>ever seen any discussion about the cost and energy to
>keep the roads maintained. Lets look at the whole
>picture!
>
>Josh
>
>"Vast tasks, calling for all the courage, discipline, dedication, and 
>ingenuity commonly associated with war, will have to be carried out if the 
>majority of humankind are to survive and enjoy a tolerable future" 
>---Robert Hart
>
>
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Tom Shelley
118 E. Court St.
Ithaca, NY 14850
607 342-0864
tjs1 at cornell.edu
http://www.myspace.com/99319958
P I thank you for printing this e-mail only if it is necessary

"Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present 
without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own 
needs."

The World Commission on Environment and Development,
Gro Harlem Brundtland
Our Common Future, Oxford University Press, 1987

MY NOTE: Sustainable development does not mean "sustainable growth" as 
growth per se is not sustainable. And the term "sustainable" has to mean 
"for a very long time" (A. Bartlett).

"The frog does not drink up the pond in which he lives." Sioux proverb 
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