[SustainableTompkins] EROI and investment

[Tony Del Plato]

This is a very interesting and informative discussion. A question that pops
into my mind: should the people, on a national or regional basis, be
appropriating oil and all energy resources in North America? We're one of
the few nations with vast resources that permit the private plundering of
what belongs to all of us including future generations.
Tony Del Plato

On Jan 5, 2008 3:33 PM, <northsheep at juno.com> wrote:

> Another conclusion in the article that I found shocking but useful,
> especially for us in the Northeast: Based on an exhaustive EROI analysis,
> the only energy alternative to fossil fuel that the authors could
> recommend for its long term investment value was wood. I think investment
> value will be a good indicator of use value, at least for wood in our
> environment.
>
> Assuming the above, an important question becomes: How do we manage and
> protect the long term public interest in this resource whose value will
> begin to skyrocket? I am reminded of the firewood crisis circa 1600 in
> Europe that more that anything else drove emigration to the New World.
> Religious and socio-economic problems were often ripple effects of
> population outstripping the carrying capacity of the main energy resource
> of that era: wood.
>
> The firewood crisis repeated itself in the New World Northeast in the
> 1700s as wood disappeared around population centers to a distance that
> made it uneconomic to harvest, given the contemporary poor state of land
> transportation. In today's energy language, the EROI of wood in the
> Northeast diminished toward zero. At one point the value of wood in
> population centers was so great that it became economic to pave roads
> with part of it just to make them passable for the rest of it. Think of
> the energy cost of that. Our roads are paved with oil; what does that
> mean?
>
> As we retreat from an oil civilization toward increasing reliance on
> wood, how do we avoid Marx's maxim: history repeats itself, once as
> tragedy, again as farce? These crises of key resources in history have
> all too often been blamed on a "tragedy of the commons", as if commoners
> had any real say in the management of forests and other resources, when
> real control was in the hands of a land owner aristocracy or royalty.
> Commoners often had no other management choice but re-appropriation, a la
> Robin Hood.
>
> This suggests that we need to reintroduce to common discourse the literal
> meaning of 'commonwealth', retiring it from vacuous terms like "British
> Commonwealth" or "Commonwealth of Massachusetts", and use the concept of
> 'a common wealth' to formalize and enforce public rights and
> responsibilities in such key resources as wood will be in our future.
>
> Karl North
> Northland Sheep Dairy, Freetown, New York USA
>     www.geocities.com/northsheep/
> "Mother Nature never farms without animals" - Albert Howard
> "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
>
>
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:57:10 -0500 Jon Bosak <bosak at ibiblio.org> writes:
> > People who were interested in last year's discussion of EROI
> > (energy returned on energy invested) may find this analysis
> > illuminating:
> >
> >     http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3412#more
> >
> > The diagrams toward the end illustrate graphically what TCLocal
> > folks have been trying to say about the effect of declining EROI
> > on "discretionary consumption."
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
> > SustainableTompkins at lists.mutualaid.org
> > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
> > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
> SustainableTompkins at lists.mutualaid.org
> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
>



-- 
The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just
sort of a tired feeling.
 - Paula Poundstone