[SustainableTompkins] Hybrid parade: mmm, i don't think so
marlo capoccia
marloco at verizon.net
Thu Mar 13 08:12:05 PST 2008
i was around in the 70's but was too young to realize what was
happening. i'm going to go out on a limb, though, and guess that for
the most part, people probably did conserve just as they did during
the world wars. when there's a crisis, people act. we probably were
lead to believe that the situation was temporary and were assuaged
into complacence by... who? oil companies? the government? retail
stores? and began consuming again as if there were no danger.
because to most people, there's not. i think that threats to the
environment are very hypothetical to people. or maybe i mean to say
distant. we know the exist and WANT to attend to them, but there are
bills to pay and kids to care for and lawns to mow (ack!) so people
drop their catsup containers in recycling because that's easy and
they really believe they're doing their part. most people that buy
hummers honestly don't realize what danger there is right now. the
ones that do are just nihilists.
so blame it on the assuagers, whoever they are. every time someone
tells you not to worry it gets a little easier to believe. it's what
you want to believe in the first place, isn't it? (the way to combat
that is EDUCATION!)
-marlo
On Mar 13, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Andy Bailey Goodell wrote:
> Well, if education is going to happen or at least start with
> grassroots
> efforts than why are Americans still using more energy per capita
> than in
> the 1970s? I wasn't around that decade, but people have long known
> about the
> need for conservation yet in the past 40 years it doesn't seem to
> have made
> a significant enough difference. Maybe some people have made a few
> small
> steps for conservation, but in all honesty it is going to take
> conserving
> 99% of your energy in order to make our current population sustainable
> (which is why the population needs to decrease also).
>
>
> Andy Goodell
> 1894 Charlotte Creek Road
> Oneonta, NY 13820
> (603) 831-0356
> http://geekguyandy.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustainabletompkins-bounces at lists.mutualaid.org
> [mailto:sustainabletompkins-bounces at lists.mutualaid.org] On Behalf
> Of marlo
> capoccia
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv
> Subject: [SustainableTompkins] Hybrid parade: mmm, i don't think so
>
> i don't think i agree. people don't change so much because they
> are forced
> to. think of how many people resist imposed religion. i think it's a
> matter of education. not that regs won't help in certain areas,
> especially
> with corporations (who have no religion...). at some point things
> have to
> fall to shit enough that people get scared. then they get
> religion! or, in
> this case, motivated enough to change. i do think that education
> could
> happen
> by grassroots efforts but don't see enough people on board yet.
> probably won't be enough people doing grassroots education before
> some sort
> of crisis.
>
> george frantz, did i see you talk at a CCE conference at cornell in
> september? you and a few other men came and talked about land use
> regs for
> farmers? anyway, i disagree with you as well. while people ARE
> expected to
> do the best they can with what they've got, it's impractical and
> unfair to
> expect everyone to live the same way and at the same level of
> conservation.
> why is this unfair? because society is not built for
> conservation. we're
> all trying to burrow our way through the muck into a golden area
> called
> "conservation." these tunnels are not built yet and as i said
> before, many
> people don't even know the golden area exists. so when people fail
> to reach
> high standards it is not always for lack of trying but for doing
> the best
> they can without good resources. i don't mean this an an excuse
> for bad
> behavior, just that good behavior is often very difficult or
> impossible.
>
> -marlo
> On Mar 13, 2008, at 9:13 AM, Andy Bailey Goodell wrote:
>
>> I agree, but as long is there is gasoline to be used for
>> transportation people will be burning it. Similarly with
>> conservation:
>> the general population will not take serious measures to conserve
>> resources until their disposable income has reached almost nothing
>> (i.e. if they want to buy a new TV they will need to conserve their
>> energy use to save up that money). The math shows that to be
>> sustainable at this population, Americans need to use about 1-2% of
>> the energy they currently average. Is that something you are ready to
>> do? I'm down to about 10% of average, but that means I still have a
>> long way to go.
>>
>> To think that even owning a car is truly sustainable would be kidding
>> ourselves. But while I try quite hard to reduce my energy use and
>> impact in all ways, the system around me (in all forms of
>> infrastructure) is not, and that makes it very hard to live a
>> low-energy lifestyle. But as we have 'evolved' to want our own house
>> with a big yard, a few parking spots, and the ability to drive
>> when we
>> want, it will certainly take much time and involve plenty of
>> resistance to get away from that model.
>>
>> The best we can really expect is nibbling around the edges until we
>> are forced by legislation, energy prices, or a drastic change in
>> society by choice.
>>
>> Andy Goodell
>> 1894 Charlotte Creek Road
>> Oneonta, NY 13820
>> (603) 831-0356
>> http://geekguyandy.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sustainabletompkins-bounces at lists.mutualaid.org
>> [mailto:sustainabletompkins-bounces at lists.mutualaid.org] On Behalf Of
>> George Frantz
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:02 PM
>> To: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv
>> Subject: Re: [SustainableTompkins] Hybrid parade: just nibbling
>> around
>> theedges
>>
>> Our 1983 VW Rabbit "Sparmeister" diesel with a simple 3-speed plus
>> overdrive standard transmission spent practically its entire 14 years
>> and 130,000 miles puffing around the hills of Ithaca at 48 mpg actual
>> city and
>> 54 mpg
>> highway. But it was simple, noisy, had a 1.8 liter engine, anemic
>> acceleration hard suspension and lacked air conditioning.
>>
>> My bike burns about 60 calories per mile. Moreover, I can bike
>> from
>> my home on Cliff Street in the morning and meet that same Prius that
>> past my house as I was leaving downtown at the corner of Green and
>> Cayuga.
>>
>> But I live in the city where I work and deal with the issues that
>> arise because I live in a compact neighborhood in close proximity to
>> people who do not necessarily share my values or tastes and can be
>> noisy and obnoxious on occasion. I deal with it, primarily because I
>> feel that if the vast majority of the world's population can live in
>> harmony in close quarters with each other then we Americans should be
>> able to as well.
>>
>> Am I the only one who sees the contradiction in people living 5,
>> 10,
>> 15 miles out in the middle of nowhere and commuting daily to work in
>> Ithaca, each needlessly spewing 1,000-1,500 lbs or more of greenhouse
>> gasses into the atmospher every year driving to and fro, and still
>> thinking of themselves as being "green?"
>>
>> Am I the only one wondering why the Ithaca urban area sprawls out
>> over 11 square miles when cities in the rest of the world with
>> similar
>> size populations take up only 2-3 square miles?
>>
>> The Prius may be getting a few people almost back to where I was in
>> 1984, but it's still an example of how we as a society are simply
>> nibbling around the edges of the problem. We are still refusng to
>> confront the fact that we (a.k.a. the person in the bathroom mirror)
>> have to acknowledge the high environmental costs of our personal
>> lifestyle choices if we are to have any chance of reversing the
>> destruction of our environment.
>>
>> George Frantz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
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>> Try it
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>
> Marlo Capoccia
> Garden Gate
> www.gardengatedelivery.com
>
>
>
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Marlo Capoccia
Garden Gate
www.gardengatedelivery.com
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