[SustainableTompkins] Hybrid parade: mmm, i don't think so

Thu Mar 13 09:11:53 PST 2008

At 10:19 AM 3/13/08 -0400, Marlo wrote:
>i don't think i agree.  people don't change so much because they are
>forced to.  think of how many people resist imposed religion.  i
>think it's a matter of education.
Most people don't see an economic imperative as a forced change, even 
though in many ways it is. If there is one thing that characterizes 
Americans, it is that we respond very well to economic prompts. Make gas 
cheap and we buy SUVs. Make it expensive and we will lead the world in 
figuring out cheaper ways to get around. Andy had an excellent point in 
that we are collectively constrained by the context we live in. No matter 
how much I would have liked to replace my minipickup with a more 
fuel-efficient one (needed for my business), there were no alternatives 
offered to me in the last 20 years that were any better than my last 
choice. In fact, as gas prices fell in real terms, fuel economy got 
seriously worse as manufactures upped horsepower in response to demand -- 
demand "fueled" by cheap gas. We wouldn't be where we are today if we had 
been forward-looking enough to raise gas taxes along the way. Europe was. 
They are in a much more sustainable position as a consequence.

I have been thinking about the need to reduce carbon emissions to 
essentially zero to effectively deal with global warming -- not to mention 
dwindling supply. We (my wife and I)  use a fraction of what a typical 
American does, but by global standards our lifestyle is wasteful and 
unsustainable. Can we get it down to 1% of a typical American level? 
Perhaps, but the resultant life, apt to be much shorter, doesn't look very 
attractive to me. I hope to be able to sustain much higher than global 
average energy consumption, and I aspire to lift the rest of the world to 
that level. I don't want to do it with fossil carbon, and I don't want to 
degrade the environment to do it either. I envision a future of much higher 
energy prices, but with that energy supplied by sustainable sources. I am 
heartened by availability studies that show that there is adequate energy 
to be harvested from these sources to power the world, even the world as we 
have known it. The question is, can we transition to that future before we 
hit "peak everything"? We cannot go on increasing consumption of natural 
resources at anything like the pace of the last few decades. We will 
literally hit the wall. My hope is that a combination of intelligent 
government policy supporting research and development, coupled with free 
markets responding to the need of the marketplace will get us to a 
sustainable future without having to endure economic collapse on the way. 
We can't afford very many policy errors like corn-based ethanol production 
diverting and wasting resources in an effort that needs to be both massive 
and sustained.

More than 2 cents worth, I guess.

Joel

> > I agree, but as long is there is gasoline to be used for
> > transportation
> > people will be burning it. Similarly with conservation: the general
> > population will not take serious measures to conserve resources
> > until their
> > disposable income has reached almost nothing (i.e. if they want to
> > buy a new
> > TV they will need to conserve their energy use to save up that
> > money). The
> > math shows that to be sustainable at this population, Americans
> > need to use
> > about 1-2% of the energy they currently average. Is that something
> > you are
> > ready to do? I'm down to about 10% of average, but that means I
> > still have a
> > long way to go.
> >
> > To think that even owning a car is truly sustainable would be kidding
> > ourselves. But while I try quite hard to reduce my energy use and
> > impact in
> > all ways, the system around me (in all forms of infrastructure) is
> > not, and
> > that makes it very hard to live a low-energy lifestyle. But as we have
> > 'evolved' to want our own house with a big yard, a few parking
> > spots, and
> > the ability to drive when we want, it will certainly take much time
> > and
> > involve plenty of resistance to get away from that model.
> >
> > The best we can really expect is nibbling around the edges until we
> > are
> > forced by legislation, energy prices, or a drastic change in
> > society by
> > choice.
> >
> > Andy Goodell
> > 1894 Charlotte Creek Road
> > Oneonta, NY 13820
> > (603) 831-0356
> > http://geekguyandy.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sustainabletompkins-bounces at lists.mutualaid.org
> > [mailto:sustainabletompkins-bounces at lists.mutualaid.org] On Behalf
> > Of George
> > Frantz
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:02 PM
> > To: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv
> > Subject: Re: [SustainableTompkins] Hybrid parade: just nibbling around
> > theedges
> >
> > Our 1983 VW Rabbit "Sparmeister" diesel with a simple 3-speed plus
> > overdrive
> > standard transmission spent practically its entire 14 years and
> > 130,000
> > miles puffing around the hills of Ithaca at 48 mpg actual city and
> > 54 mpg
> > highway.  But it was simple, noisy, had a  1.8 liter engine, anemic
> > acceleration hard suspension and lacked air conditioning.
> >
> >   My bike burns about 60 calories per mile.  Moreover, I can bike
> > from my
> > home on Cliff Street in the morning and meet that same Prius that
> > past my
> > house as I was leaving downtown at the corner of Green and Cayuga.
> >
> >   But I live in the city where I work and deal with the issues that
> > arise
> > because I live in a compact neighborhood in close proximity to
> > people who do
> > not necessarily share my values or tastes and can be noisy and
> > obnoxious on
> > occasion.  I deal with it, primarily because I feel that if the vast
> > majority of the world's population can live in harmony in close
> > quarters
> > with each other then we Americans should be able to as well.
> >
> >   Am I the only one who sees the contradiction in people living 5,
> > 10, 15
> > miles out in the middle of nowhere and commuting daily to work in
> > Ithaca,
> > each needlessly spewing 1,000-1,500 lbs or more of greenhouse
> > gasses into
> > the atmospher every year driving to and fro, and still thinking of
> > themselves as being "green?"
> >
> >   Am I the only one wondering why the Ithaca urban area sprawls out
> > over 11
> > square miles when cities in the rest of the world with similar size
> > populations take up only 2-3 square miles?
> >
> >   The Prius may be getting a few people almost back to where I was
> > in 1984,
> > but it's still an example of how we as a society are simply
> > nibbling around
> > the edges of the problem. We are still refusng to confront the fact
> > that we
> > (a.k.a. the person in the bathroom mirror) have to acknowledge the
> > high
> > environmental costs of our personal lifestyle choices if we are to
> > have any
> > chance of reversing the destruction of our environment.
> >
> >   George Frantz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
> > Try it
> > now.
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>
>Marlo Capoccia
>Garden Gate
>www.gardengatedelivery.com
>
>
>
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